tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6370694228518207700.post6639855655626975382..comments2016-07-25T11:15:26.839+01:00Comments on One Foot in Front of the Other: You're Only Cheating YourselfSam Robsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14568965712756700275noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6370694228518207700.post-11846730547984977072013-01-16T09:39:33.697+00:002013-01-16T09:39:33.697+00:00Nice post. So many interesting questions raised. I...Nice post. So many interesting questions raised. If you have people that cheat and just don't care - maybe some people are just like this. Going on from this, if you really don't actually care, then are you cheating yourself? Do those that 'cheat' and not care feel the same sense of achievement that those who don't?<br /><br />To someone that would never cheat, it is an almost impossible perspective to comprehend, but perhaps if there are people that are just fundamentally different in that way, then we will always have cheating. We know for example that people on the autistic spectrum have issues with the processing of subtle emotions. It is not beyond comprehension, that in an area as grey as this, constantly shifting with advances in technology and understanding of human physiology that 'cheating' occurs, and those that do so, raise no alarm bells in their own conscience. <br /><br />As an aside, I think that lots and lots of people run ultras for something other than a love of running. But that's a whole other kettle of fish. :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02646418731522723036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6370694228518207700.post-8736247841315006772013-01-16T09:27:08.026+00:002013-01-16T09:27:08.026+00:00That's a very good point about the fact that t...That's a very good point about the fact that the shortest route (so cutting the course) isn't necessarily the fastest or most efficient route. Runners like Kilian can get away with running straight up/down, but for most mere mortals taking the switchbacks as they come will likely result in the best outcome. <br /><br />Your point about Lakeland is valid though, and this exact question was posed to the race organisers last year on Facebook. The organisers were quite vague that you should just take the clear path, but granted a clear trod like you describe may fall under this description. In the half that I ran, I stuck to the main path and got overtaken by runners on sections like these which was a little grating, but it is probably just another case of differences between cultures. Lakeland skirts the boundary of trail and fell (in as much as the trails that you run on are at times somewhat less well defined, and sometimes non-existent), so there is more ambiguity. There are some sections where there really isn't a path at all (at least to me untrained eyes - I remember from our BGR recce that my definition of a path is very different to regular fell runners!), so you really are just running from one point to another and runners were taking completely different lines with no one "correct" route. Something like UTMB on the other hand has very regular trail markers to delineate the course, and taking even an obviously well-trod cut here is more easily definable as going "off course".<br /><br />I guess the point is that there are many grey areas, and people will disagree about which are the light greys and which are the dark. But I know that I would feel better about my race on a personal level by sticking to the main path, even if it may cost me a few minutes over the long run. Sam Robsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14568965712756700275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6370694228518207700.post-8462883394685143852013-01-16T08:57:34.501+00:002013-01-16T08:57:34.501+00:00Great post Sam. My view on cheating in sport is so...Great post Sam. My view on cheating in sport is something people have to live with. Like you I couldn't, and if somebody wants to claim a fastest known time or a win through cheating then to me they aren't sportsman and good luck to them living with the "what ifs" and the "could I have really won?" I'd rather come second and know I achieved it. That said, I'm not at the bleeding edge of the sport or at the top of the field and nor do I expect to be, so some would argue that it is easy for me to say this as I won't get near to a win anyway.<br /><br />Ultimately there is always a line to draw somewhere and there will be activities very close to that line. I agree with your father, it's about intent, but how do you prove intent? The result is we can only look at actions which is probably why each activity close tot he line results in such black and white opinion from people. <br /><br />An example here is on the switchbacks issue we probably slightly differ on. Having been out ont he weekend to recce the first 26 miles of the Lakeland100 I noticed a clear trod cutting the corner off the main path. This probably saved 20 footsteps, but I'd argue it was fair enough because the course isn't marked out and it was a clear trod despite it deviating from the 6 foot wide path. Further on we came to a section where there was a less clear trod cutting off a bigger section of path, but still less than 50 steps. It was much steeper though, so whilst it was quicker one has to ask at what cost and how many of those decisions will come back to haunt you at the 80 mile mark. <br /><br />The Edale Skyline presents an interesting case study. Last year's winner (Lloyd Taggart I think) drops down on the final section into the valley and then climbs back up again, the other chap who was neck and neck with him knew Lloyd would beat him on the uphill so went around the top. Lloyd beat him by ~90 seconds - cheating? Having seen the down and up I'd say no, I'd say "loony!" then take my hat off to the chap.<br /><br />For me, where the course is marked out then there is no question and if the organisers think there is a significant benefit by cutting in places they merely need to make a statement about it or mark that section (we do on the Sandstone Trail Challenge race I help organise). On something like the lakeland100 people will also make navigational errors so the distance is undoubtedly evened out.<br /><br />As you say, the fine lines are always ripe for debate; what Lance did isn't.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com